1
00:00:09,190 --> 00:00:06,550
[Music]

2
00:00:13,940 --> 00:00:09,200
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

3
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:13,950
from australia for science and reason

4
00:00:24,710 --> 00:00:16,850
[Applause]

5
00:00:28,830 --> 00:00:26,630
yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

6
00:00:32,709 --> 00:00:28,840
episode number

7
00:00:34,870 --> 00:00:32,719
695 for the 30th of january

8
00:00:39,190 --> 00:00:34,880
2022 richard saunders coming to you from

9
00:00:41,389 --> 00:00:39,200
sydney australia yes 695 last week's

10
00:00:46,310 --> 00:00:41,399
on last week's episode i said it was

11
00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:46,320
649 i got the numbers mixed up i'm sure

12
00:00:50,150 --> 00:00:48,160
no one got confused about that except

13
00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:50,160
for me apparently

14
00:00:53,590 --> 00:00:51,520
today i'm

15
00:00:55,830 --> 00:00:53,600
recording from near the skeptic's own

16
00:00:57,830 --> 00:00:55,840
studios in a park and i thought i'd

17
00:00:59,670 --> 00:00:57,840
bring you the sounds of the street why

18
00:01:01,110 --> 00:00:59,680
not something a bit different

19
00:01:02,950 --> 00:01:01,120
so apart from the traffic the other

20
00:01:05,830 --> 00:01:02,960
sounds you're hearing

21
00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:05,840
are the cicadas in the tree

22
00:01:11,429 --> 00:01:08,159
cicadas are very

23
00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:11,439
very loud sometimes during summer

24
00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:13,760
so loud in fact that sometimes i even

25
00:01:19,109 --> 00:01:16,560
have to stop recording in the studio

26
00:01:21,429 --> 00:01:19,119
and there's another reason i'm here

27
00:01:23,590 --> 00:01:21,439
in the park i'll get to that in a moment

28
00:01:27,109 --> 00:01:23,600
coming up on this week's show

29
00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:27,119
i interview author craig goode

30
00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:29,280
from california who's written a book

31
00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:30,880
called relax

32
00:01:35,749 --> 00:01:32,960
and enjoy your food

33
00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:35,759
what a tempting title that is

34
00:01:43,510 --> 00:01:38,400
it's all about food fads

35
00:01:46,389 --> 00:01:43,520
food myths and uh food misconceptions

36
00:01:49,429 --> 00:01:46,399
what about gmo what about paleo find out

37
00:01:50,550 --> 00:01:49,439
with craig good coming up at the top of

38
00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:50,560
the show

39
00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:52,000
following that it's the australian

40
00:01:57,590 --> 00:01:54,240
skeptic's newsletter

41
00:01:59,910 --> 00:01:57,600
written by tim menden but read by adrian

42
00:02:01,590 --> 00:01:59,920
hill in canada

43
00:02:03,270 --> 00:02:01,600
then to round off the show in the trove

44
00:02:06,069 --> 00:02:03,280
segment we look at that

45
00:02:07,190 --> 00:02:06,079
muchly forgotten muchly forgotten mostly

46
00:02:09,350 --> 00:02:07,200
forgotten

47
00:02:11,589 --> 00:02:09,360
something that you sort of remember from

48
00:02:13,270 --> 00:02:11,599
years ago maybe

49
00:02:15,589 --> 00:02:13,280
uh

50
00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:15,599
so-called paranormal

51
00:02:20,949 --> 00:02:18,480
phenomenon of uh

52
00:02:24,949 --> 00:02:20,959
curling photography

53
00:02:28,229 --> 00:02:24,959
photographing so-called

54
00:02:30,869 --> 00:02:28,239
auras and bits of spirit and and so on

55
00:02:32,309 --> 00:02:30,879
it's an interesting segment because

56
00:02:33,350 --> 00:02:32,319
i couldn't find

57
00:02:35,509 --> 00:02:33,360
much that

58
00:02:37,350 --> 00:02:35,519
dealt with it directly so we get a lot

59
00:02:38,550 --> 00:02:37,360
of tangents we get a lot of stories that

60
00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:38,560
sort of

61
00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:40,879
mention it in passing

62
00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:43,920
but lead to other interesting things

63
00:02:48,949 --> 00:02:45,280
including

64
00:02:52,150 --> 00:02:48,959
the case of a would-be yuri gella

65
00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:52,160
a young girl in california in the 1970s

66
00:02:56,470 --> 00:02:54,480
who was bending spoons

67
00:02:59,589 --> 00:02:56,480
very interesting story

68
00:03:01,190 --> 00:02:59,599
now as i chat to you and the cicadas are

69
00:03:04,470 --> 00:03:01,200
chirping i guess they chirp they sing

70
00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:04,480
they whatever they do

71
00:03:08,309 --> 00:03:06,560
loudly the cars are going by and there

72
00:03:10,630 --> 00:03:08,319
are people walking about

73
00:03:12,869 --> 00:03:10,640
i'm also near a sign on the street here

74
00:03:13,670 --> 00:03:12,879
that says school zone

75
00:03:16,710 --> 00:03:13,680
8

76
00:03:19,990 --> 00:03:16,720
to 9 30 a.m

77
00:03:22,149 --> 00:03:20,000
2 30 to 4 p.m school days 40 kilometers

78
00:03:23,589 --> 00:03:22,159
an hour and it has flashing lights which

79
00:03:25,509 --> 00:03:23,599
reminds me

80
00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:25,519
and it's good to be reminded

81
00:03:29,509 --> 00:03:27,040
that for

82
00:03:33,350 --> 00:03:29,519
uh the vast majority of students school

83
00:03:35,270 --> 00:03:33,360
starts again this week in australia

84
00:03:37,830 --> 00:03:35,280
not only for the vast majority of

85
00:03:40,149 --> 00:03:37,840
students of course but for teachers

86
00:03:42,550 --> 00:03:40,159
so i want to give a special

87
00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:42,560
shout out to teachers

88
00:03:45,589 --> 00:03:44,000
teachers all over the country who are

89
00:03:47,830 --> 00:03:45,599
going back

90
00:03:49,990 --> 00:03:47,840
and where would we be without the

91
00:03:52,630 --> 00:03:50,000
teachers out there

92
00:03:54,470 --> 00:03:52,640
who are often unsung

93
00:03:56,710 --> 00:03:54,480
who work long

94
00:03:57,910 --> 00:03:56,720
hours and have to put up with an awful

95
00:04:00,949 --> 00:03:57,920
lot

96
00:04:02,630 --> 00:04:00,959
where would we be so a big shout out and

97
00:04:06,470 --> 00:04:02,640
to let you know

98
00:04:10,309 --> 00:04:08,229
oh there goes a plane so we're getting

99
00:04:12,830 --> 00:04:10,319
the full gamut of sounds near the

100
00:04:15,830 --> 00:04:12,840
skeptic's own studio

101
00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:15,840
today anyway now it's time for me to run

102
00:04:18,789 --> 00:04:17,840
around the corner

103
00:04:20,870 --> 00:04:18,799
um

104
00:04:22,550 --> 00:04:20,880
run around the corner to a little coffee

105
00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:22,560
shop which is nearby

106
00:04:26,629 --> 00:04:24,400
get a nice flat white coffee while i do

107
00:04:38,610 --> 00:04:26,639
that i hope you enjoy

108
00:04:48,230 --> 00:04:46,230
[Music]

109
00:04:50,550 --> 00:04:48,240
well folks i don't know about you but

110
00:04:53,270 --> 00:04:50,560
after christmas and all this pandemic

111
00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:53,280
i'm sort of looking around for the next

112
00:04:57,909 --> 00:04:55,680
fad diet to try what will i do folks

113
00:05:00,230 --> 00:04:57,919
will it be keto will it be paleo maybe i

114
00:05:02,469 --> 00:05:00,240
should go gluten free

115
00:05:04,790 --> 00:05:02,479
i just don't know but somebody who does

116
00:05:07,670 --> 00:05:04,800
know is my guest today on the skeptic

117
00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:07,680
zone all the way from vallejo california

118
00:05:12,469 --> 00:05:10,320
in the bay area an area i know well it's

119
00:05:13,830 --> 00:05:12,479
craig good hello craig

120
00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:13,840
hello richard

121
00:05:17,430 --> 00:05:16,080
it's good to catch up with you i'm

122
00:05:19,510 --> 00:05:17,440
we're

123
00:05:21,990 --> 00:05:19,520
videoing as we do these days and i see

124
00:05:23,990 --> 00:05:22,000
you're wearing that great skeptoid shirt

125
00:05:25,270 --> 00:05:24,000
with the science is greater than

126
00:05:26,950 --> 00:05:25,280
superstition

127
00:05:28,629 --> 00:05:26,960
exactly it seemed

128
00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:28,639
i was going to say it i chose it

129
00:05:33,909 --> 00:05:30,400
especially but honestly it was just the

130
00:05:37,749 --> 00:05:35,909
well we won't tell brian dunnington yeah

131
00:05:39,909 --> 00:05:37,759
it's like we can just be

132
00:05:41,749 --> 00:05:39,919
it is i i've got a skeptoid shirt and

133
00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:41,759
sometimes i wear it when it comes up in

134
00:05:47,590 --> 00:05:43,360
the cupboard but i tell brian that oh

135
00:05:51,430 --> 00:05:49,189
but anyway let's get back to this

136
00:05:53,189 --> 00:05:51,440
interesting topic you have released a

137
00:05:56,150 --> 00:05:53,199
book and it's what an interesting title

138
00:05:58,790 --> 00:05:56,160
it is relax and enjoy your food save

139
00:06:02,309 --> 00:05:58,800
your money your health and your sanity

140
00:06:05,350 --> 00:06:02,319
by separating fat from flap doodle

141
00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:05,360
what's the idea behind this book uh it's

142
00:06:14,629 --> 00:06:12,469
astonishingly enough uh

143
00:06:16,710 --> 00:06:14,639
i wrote it to be kind of an accessible

144
00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:16,720
way to look at your relationship with

145
00:06:18,710 --> 00:06:17,840
food

146
00:06:21,110 --> 00:06:18,720
um

147
00:06:22,309 --> 00:06:21,120
i i've i've long been interested in food

148
00:06:24,309 --> 00:06:22,319
everybody's interested in food because

149
00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:24,319
we all eat uh

150
00:06:27,830 --> 00:06:26,479
but i've enjoyed cooking and you know

151
00:06:29,670 --> 00:06:27,840
long time subscriber to cooks

152
00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:29,680
illustrated and things

153
00:06:35,270 --> 00:06:32,960
but also i got an up close

154
00:06:37,189 --> 00:06:35,280
look at how important the relationship

155
00:06:39,670 --> 00:06:37,199
with food is when my daughter was

156
00:06:41,510 --> 00:06:39,680
diagnosed with anorexia

157
00:06:44,150 --> 00:06:41,520
and helping them

158
00:06:46,950 --> 00:06:44,160
through that recovery was

159
00:06:50,309 --> 00:06:46,960
a very educational experience

160
00:06:51,510 --> 00:06:50,319
and so you know you look around people

161
00:06:53,510 --> 00:06:51,520
like you said they're looking for the

162
00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:53,520
next fad diet they're looking for the

163
00:06:57,189 --> 00:06:55,599
magic bullet yeah they're worried about

164
00:06:58,870 --> 00:06:57,199
what ingredients they're eating they're

165
00:07:00,390 --> 00:06:58,880
wondering are am i eating the right

166
00:07:01,990 --> 00:07:00,400
foods am i eating at the right time of

167
00:07:02,950 --> 00:07:02,000
day am i eating the right combination of

168
00:07:05,189 --> 00:07:02,960
things

169
00:07:06,629 --> 00:07:05,199
and it turns out that pretty much none

170
00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:06,639
of that matters that's interesting

171
00:07:10,629 --> 00:07:08,400
because i mean

172
00:07:13,510 --> 00:07:10,639
you know in the last well what can i say

173
00:07:16,469 --> 00:07:13,520
two decades especially it just seems to

174
00:07:20,309 --> 00:07:18,390
so-called breakthrough after another

175
00:07:22,710 --> 00:07:20,319
after another when it comes to what you

176
00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:22,720
should eat or what you shouldn't eat

177
00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:24,400
and i think

178
00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:26,960
the the one that i see mostly out and

179
00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:27,840
about

180
00:07:33,830 --> 00:07:32,240
gluten-free

181
00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:33,840
what's your take

182
00:07:38,629 --> 00:07:36,160
on on the gluten-free fad could we call

183
00:07:41,990 --> 00:07:38,639
it a fad do we call it a craze

184
00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:42,000
there is a gluten-free fad

185
00:07:47,510 --> 00:07:44,080
but this one's a little complicated

186
00:07:49,990 --> 00:07:47,520
because there are people who do need to

187
00:07:52,869 --> 00:07:50,000
avoid gluten those are people who have

188
00:07:55,270 --> 00:07:52,879
celiac disease it's an autoimmune thing

189
00:07:57,270 --> 00:07:55,280
and gluten will

190
00:07:59,189 --> 00:07:57,280
ruin their day it's really you know even

191
00:08:00,710 --> 00:07:59,199
a little bit of it uh but if you're

192
00:08:02,390 --> 00:08:00,720
someone who says i just feel better on

193
00:08:04,150 --> 00:08:02,400
days when i don't eat gluten you've

194
00:08:06,309 --> 00:08:04,160
fallen for the fad

195
00:08:07,830 --> 00:08:06,319
right if your doctor has told you

196
00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:07,840
stay away from the gluten this is why

197
00:08:11,510 --> 00:08:09,360
you're getting that horrible upset

198
00:08:13,430 --> 00:08:11,520
stomach and things uh that's a different

199
00:08:15,110 --> 00:08:13,440
story do you know

200
00:08:17,670 --> 00:08:15,120
roughly how many people in the

201
00:08:20,469 --> 00:08:17,680
population would need to sincerely steer

202
00:08:22,070 --> 00:08:20,479
clear of gluten i don't know that number

203
00:08:22,950 --> 00:08:22,080
i'm not going to make it up i believe

204
00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:22,960
it's

205
00:08:28,230 --> 00:08:26,160
uh in the low single digits of a percent

206
00:08:30,469 --> 00:08:28,240
right because

207
00:08:32,230 --> 00:08:30,479
it's interesting because as i say and

208
00:08:33,589 --> 00:08:32,240
you've probably seen the same thing

209
00:08:35,029 --> 00:08:33,599
yourself and no doubt our listeners when

210
00:08:37,029 --> 00:08:35,039
you're out and about in the supermarkets

211
00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:37,039
or whatever there are

212
00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:39,919
there are uh multitudes there are

213
00:08:44,230 --> 00:08:41,919
shelves devoted to gluten-free you can

214
00:08:46,550 --> 00:08:44,240
get gluten-free

215
00:08:48,389 --> 00:08:46,560
everything you know it's it's it's

216
00:08:51,110 --> 00:08:48,399
gluten-free bacon i've seen that at my

217
00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:51,120
store gluten-free bacon well that's my

218
00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:52,880
mistake that's what i should be yeah

219
00:08:56,550 --> 00:08:54,720
that's what i should be aiming for but

220
00:08:59,990 --> 00:08:56,560
but you'd agree with me it's it's an

221
00:09:02,790 --> 00:09:00,000
incredible marketing uh tool yeah it's

222
00:09:04,230 --> 00:09:02,800
it's all about marketing and what i rail

223
00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:04,240
against in the book is

224
00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:06,720
fear-based marketing right there are

225
00:09:11,509 --> 00:09:09,760
there are a lot of a lot of companies

226
00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:11,519
have spent a lot of money making you

227
00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:13,920
afraid of things so they can you know

228
00:09:17,509 --> 00:09:15,440
give someone a problem and then offer a

229
00:09:20,949 --> 00:09:17,519
solution yes

230
00:09:24,550 --> 00:09:20,959
so uh when you see terms like organic

231
00:09:26,550 --> 00:09:24,560
natural non-gmo

232
00:09:27,590 --> 00:09:26,560
those are all just fear-based marketing

233
00:09:29,750 --> 00:09:27,600
terms

234
00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:29,760
and this is something you you talk about

235
00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:32,160
in the book it's it's

236
00:09:35,350 --> 00:09:33,680
you know it's a sign of our times that

237
00:09:36,870 --> 00:09:35,360
these fear-based marketing things have

238
00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:36,880
such um

239
00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:38,800
carry such weight especially when you go

240
00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:40,800
to the supermarket and now as i said

241
00:09:43,750 --> 00:09:42,000
with the um

242
00:09:45,910 --> 00:09:43,760
with the gluten-free it's it's very

243
00:09:48,389 --> 00:09:45,920
obvious and visible but this big

244
00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:48,399
movement is a big push to have every

245
00:09:54,630 --> 00:09:51,040
every food labelled if it's gmo or not

246
00:09:56,710 --> 00:09:54,640
gmo and as far as i know year after year

247
00:09:58,949 --> 00:09:56,720
the research keeps telling us that gmo

248
00:10:00,790 --> 00:09:58,959
is perfectly safe yeah

249
00:10:03,590 --> 00:10:00,800
that's one of the biggest divides

250
00:10:05,990 --> 00:10:03,600
between the science scientific community

251
00:10:08,550 --> 00:10:06,000
and the public at large is scientists

252
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:08,560
don't know that gmo is great it's fine

253
00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:09,680
no problem

254
00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:10,720
and

255
00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:12,640
a

256
00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:22,480
them

257
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:23,519
right

258
00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:25,760
yeah well and this is this is a curious

259
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:28,640
one for me because it is so entrenched

260
00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:30,800
in some people and the fear i mean okay

261
00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:33,200
so people have a fear of

262
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:35,680
of gluten free maybe or gluten i should

263
00:10:40,150 --> 00:10:38,399
say um yes there's a genuine reason for

264
00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:40,160
that for a very uh

265
00:10:44,949 --> 00:10:42,320
small percentage of the population but

266
00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:44,959
the number of people who are

267
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:48,160
so fearful of gmo foods to the extent

268
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:50,399
that they will vandalize and damage and

269
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:52,240
and do all sorts of things is is truly

270
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:53,680
amazing

271
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:54,959
yeah or

272
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:57,200
organizations like greenpeace who have

273
00:11:01,509 --> 00:10:59,040
officially said they would rather have

274
00:11:04,710 --> 00:11:01,519
children go blind and get sick and die

275
00:11:06,949 --> 00:11:04,720
than to let farmers plant gmos

276
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:06,959
that to me is just obscene

277
00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:09,360
what what do you think the the

278
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:11,760
the strength of the reasoning or the

279
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:14,320
push behind especially with anti-gmo is

280
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:15,519
it just

281
00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:18,320
uh lots of concerned people who

282
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:20,720
don't know all the facts there is a root

283
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:22,800
fear and i have to give uh

284
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,640
credit to a book

285
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:26,560
that i highly recommend called the

286
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,120
gluten lie and other myths about what

287
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:32,160
you eat by alan lavinovitz

288
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:33,279
who is

289
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:36,240
not a scientist or nutritionist

290
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:38,240
he's a theologian

291
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:40,160
but he was exactly the guy to write the

292
00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:42,959
book and what he identified is that it's

293
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:45,839
a fear of modernity really fear of

294
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:48,640
modernity is what gives us myths like

295
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:51,519
atlantis and the garden of eden it also

296
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:53,680
gives you pretty much every food fad

297
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:56,880
there is you know the whole chemophobic

298
00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:58,800
take of you know don't eat ingredients

299
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,120
you can't pronounce right right right

300
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:03,040
that's just fear of modernity right

301
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,120
there's there's no rational basis for it

302
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:07,040
it's just people you know that there's

303
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:08,240
that

304
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:13,519
were somehow better people were wiser

305
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:15,760
they lived closer to the earth they they

306
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:18,079
were healthier they were happier

307
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:19,360
nonsense

308
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,720
yeah this is the best time that's ever

309
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,720
been to be alive and this is all woven

310
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:24,560
in with natural is best

311
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:26,000
exactly it's

312
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:28,079
it's uh closely tied to that

313
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:30,880
naturalistic fallacy yeah yeah so the

314
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:33,200
poster child of that of course is paleo

315
00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:35,040
right you know i was just about to get

316
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,880
to that because this was

317
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,560
quite popular here

318
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,040
six seven years ago and just briefly for

319
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:43,680
those people who may have only heard

320
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,519
about it in passing what's the take on

321
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:48,000
paleo what's what's its claim

322
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:51,519
well its claim is that life was somehow

323
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:53,920
better in the paleolithic era

324
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:55,600
that uh

325
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:58,240
that people evolved to eat a certain

326
00:13:02,230 --> 00:12:59,680
diet

327
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:02,240
and that uh we should eat the way they

328
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:03,360
ate

329
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:08,639
really this fuzzy idea of if you can

330
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:10,240
imagine a caveman eating it then it was

331
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:11,920
probably okay

332
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,200
in in the

333
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:15,839
in the in the book i have a photograph i

334
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:18,399
was looking around for an absurd example

335
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:20,720
and i was going to in the book just say

336
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,160
can you imagine something as dumb as

337
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:23,839
paleo pizza

338
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:26,720
and while i was working on that

339
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,200
uh that part of the book i went to my

340
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,440
local costco and i found and

341
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:34,000
photographed a bag of i kid you not

342
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:37,120
paleo pancake mix good heavens just like

343
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,720
the cavemen used to make on their

344
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:40,720
griddle right just like the caveman made

345
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:42,480
on their griddle

346
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:43,839
and you know

347
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,000
as i often say in

348
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:48,560
on social media poe's law rules the

349
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:50,720
universe

350
00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:53,199
it's you're absolutely right and and you

351
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:55,360
see plenty of examples

352
00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:58,000
of of that it's absolutely true the

353
00:14:01,590 --> 00:13:59,920
other thing i'll get you to uh talk

354
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:01,600
about briefly which is

355
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:02,480
uh

356
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:04,079
something really interwoven with all

357
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,079
this and you've mentioned it before and

358
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:08,160
i guess it comes back to this

359
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:09,920
the fallacy of

360
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,320
nature is best is organic

361
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,240
and how people are so wrapped up in this

362
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:17,120
idea that they must eat organic food

363
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,480
organic in the food context is 100

364
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:22,079
a marketing term

365
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,040
it has no scientific basis uh

366
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:27,360
in the u.s i i mean i don't know how

367
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:30,240
it's defined in australia and i don't

368
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:31,760
only have vague ideas how it's defined

369
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:33,199
in europe but it's pretty much the same

370
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:34,399
idea here

371
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,959
essentially the organic food industry

372
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:38,160
uh

373
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:39,680
got their

374
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,720
got the usda to codify their own

375
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,560
guidelines and it's just guidelines

376
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:46,399
about what materials you can use things

377
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:49,440
like that yeah it has nothing to do with

378
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:51,279
health or safety it used to actually say

379
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:52,959
that on the usd website i have that

380
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,829
and there's no evidence that it's

381
00:15:02,150 --> 00:14:59,920
nutritionally any better or that it's

382
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,160
healthier in any kind of way

383
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,839
uh but it is two to three times more

384
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:06,240
expensive yeah the biggest problem

385
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:08,800
there's nothing wrong with

386
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:09,680
uh

387
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,600
organic food per se

388
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:13,519
it's not that it's bad

389
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:14,480
but

390
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:17,519
it does use 20 percent more land and

391
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:20,480
resources than conventional which

392
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:23,360
in these days is uh a serious problem i

393
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:25,600
always thought um you know ever since i

394
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:28,160
heard about fad diets and natural and

395
00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:29,600
organic and all the rest of it and i'd

396
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,800
go to the supermarket and i would see

397
00:15:36,069 --> 00:15:35,040
as as you would in in you know many

398
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,079
parts of the world when you go to the

399
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:38,720
supermarket just just shelves of fresh

400
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,279
fruit and vegetables and good food

401
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:43,440
everywhere of course mixed up with stuff

402
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:45,839
that you shouldn't eat very much of like

403
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,920
the the candy and the

404
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,839
chips and the junk food but

405
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,680
your local supermarket surely can

406
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:53,920
provide you with every vitamin and

407
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,519
mineral and good fiber that you could

408
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:57,680
possibly want the way i put it in the

409
00:16:01,110 --> 00:15:59,199
book is

410
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,120
that the best diet advice you can get

411
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,360
the best nutrition advice is to enjoy a

412
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:05,040
variety of foods

413
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:07,199
mostly plants including plenty of fruits

414
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,360
and veggies not too much and not too

415
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,519
little anything much more specific than

416
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,360
that is usually coming from someone

417
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:16,079
selling something right

418
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,279
and yeah if you get a big enough variety

419
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:21,600
and include plenty of fruits and veggies

420
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:23,920
it's highly unlikely you'll be deficient

421
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:26,480
in any kind of vitamin

422
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,480
if your doctor

423
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:30,399
diagnoses you with a condition or

424
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:32,240
deficiency and says here you should take

425
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:34,079
this vitamin then then take it other

426
00:16:37,509 --> 00:16:36,000
than that you don't need that you don't

427
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,519
need supplements

428
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:39,199
that's that's the other

429
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:41,519
giant industry i imagine it's as bad

430
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:43,360
down there as it is

431
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:45,920
up here uh our supplement industry is

432
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:49,040
just a giant unregulated monster

433
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,720
yeah well there are yeah of course here

434
00:16:54,150 --> 00:16:52,399
in australia there are whole stores of

435
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:54,160
devoted to nothing but supplements and

436
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,800
vitamins and yeah same here uh magic

437
00:17:02,389 --> 00:16:58,639
pills and all and all sorts of things

438
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,399
folks the book is called relax and enjoy

439
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:04,640
your food what a good idea save your

440
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:07,520
money your health and your sanity by

441
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:10,559
separating fact from flapdoodle it's by

442
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,439
craig goode and you can see more about

443
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,679
that book and see if you can snag

444
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:18,079
yourself a copy if you visit relax and

445
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:21,839
enjoy your food dot com craig thanks

446
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:23,679
very much for spending time with us uh

447
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:27,039
what's next on the horizon for me i'm

448
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:29,039
back i'm back to teaching i'm in a

449
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:30,720
semester i teach

450
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:32,559
at california college of the arts so

451
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:33,360
that's

452
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:36,400
it's kind of my afternoon and evening

453
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:37,919
job but right

454
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:39,760
that's that's what i'm up to right now

455
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:41,840
and uh just trying to get the word out

456
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:43,039
about the book

457
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:44,960
excellent well once again craig good

458
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:47,360
from beautiful vallejo california thank

459
00:17:51,170 --> 00:17:58,950
[Music]

460
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,669
hi i'm ben radford co-host of scoring

461
00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:03,360
strange podcast

462
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,919
in these trying times as we help each

463
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:07,919
other out to hold on to hope we want you

464
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,919
to know that we're here for you hey hey

465
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,919
what are you going on about

466
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:13,280
who's interrupting my heartfelt

467
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,320
promotional copy it's me celestia ward

468
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:18,480
your co-host

469
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,360
really in these trying times that's the

470
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,880
best you can do

471
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:24,320
well i'm just doing what everyone else

472
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:26,240
is doing i thought

473
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,280
that's

474
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,880
not what we do

475
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:30,880
oh for crying out loud who else is here

476
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:34,080
pasqual romero your other co-host

477
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:35,039
hey

478
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,760
we don't do what everybody else does ben

479
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:39,360
that's kind of our thing at squaring the

480
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:41,840
strange yeah we try to approach things a

481
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:43,600
little differently than your standard

482
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:45,840
skeptical talky talk show

483
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,320
we do our own thing bringing science

484
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,640
critical thinking and skepticism to bear

485
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:52,240
on issues of the day

486
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:53,840
we've got a professional skeptical

487
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:55,039
author ben

488
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:56,720
who has decades of experience

489
00:19:01,990 --> 00:18:59,440
researching topics for a dozen books and

490
00:19:03,909 --> 00:19:02,000
thousands of articles and a cartoonist

491
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:03,919
skeptic celestia who knows her stuff

492
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,600
when it comes to facial weirdness and

493
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:07,679
the psychology of perception and a

494
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:10,160
badass heavy metal rock star and tech

495
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,320
engineer pasquale who brings knowledge

496
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:14,320
of all things audio plus a bunch of neck

497
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,360
tattoos

498
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:17,520
scoring the strange explores topics both

499
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:19,440
mysterious and mundane through a

500
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:22,400
critical lens monsters panics media

501
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,080
literacy

502
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:26,559
okay forget the whole trying times promo

503
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:29,039
idea but we have chupacabras and clown

504
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:30,320
panics right

505
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:32,850
yes

506
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:51,600
[Music]

507
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:54,240
hello everyone it's adrian hill from

508
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:56,000
canada here to read the highlights from

509
00:20:03,029 --> 00:19:59,440
the australian skeptics newsletter

510
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:03,039
this is newsletter number 140

511
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:05,039
you can subscribe to this newsletter and

512
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,880
get it delivered to your inbox every

513
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:09,200
other week complete with links to all

514
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:10,400
the stories

515
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:17,830
but now let's get to the newsletter and

516
00:20:28,149 --> 00:20:25,430
hi all he says

517
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:28,159
and hi back to you tim

518
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:30,320
whether you think it's going up down or

519
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:33,600
around in circles covet is still with us

520
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:36,159
except here another covet free

521
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:38,159
newsletter as a haven against the

522
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:41,280
outside world a complimentary service we

523
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:43,679
are happy to provide

524
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:46,960
instead we have a panoply of stuff to

525
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,039
keep the worries at bay at least for a

526
00:20:55,029 --> 00:20:51,600
little while so sit back and enjoy some

527
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:55,039
hauntings syndromes pseudos survivals

528
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:59,679
the prince the slow hand and the lord

529
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:01,120
read on

530
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:03,730
signed tim

531
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:06,159
[Music]

532
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:10,159
cia skeptical of havana syndrome

533
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:12,320
interesting piece on the supposed

534
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:15,840
microwave weapon used by one government

535
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,559
we're thinking evil rescues here against

536
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:20,799
another innocent americans and maybe

537
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:23,280
some canadians so i hear in a u.s

538
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,799
embassy in cuba

539
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:26,640
the author of this piece says he has

540
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,720
argued for some time quote

541
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,200
that reports of havana syndrome were the

542
00:21:36,149 --> 00:21:33,440
result of bad science and sensational

543
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:36,159
journalism and can be explained using

544
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:38,799
mainstream psychology and common sense

545
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:40,240
end quote

546
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:42,960
that now seems to be backed up by a cia

547
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:45,039
report

548
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:48,559
scientific certainty survival kit

549
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:51,440
an article from the conversation about

550
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:54,159
quote how to push back against skeptics

551
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:56,799
who exploit uncertainty for political

552
00:22:02,310 --> 00:21:59,600
gain end quote that should be

553
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:02,320
skeptics with a c rather than skeptics

554
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:06,000
with a k there is a difference

555
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,440
an article from the conversation about

556
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,080
quote how to push back against skeptics

557
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:14,080
who exploit uncertainty for political

558
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:15,919
gain end quote

559
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,400
that should be skeptics with a c rather

560
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:20,720
than skeptics with a k there is a

561
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,840
difference

562
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,080
but the issue is that the demand for

563
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:26,720
absolute certainty can be dangerous and

564
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:28,080
even deadly

565
00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:30,559
despite this demands for absolute or

566
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:32,640
near certainty are a common way for

567
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:34,400
those with a political agenda to

568
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:38,559
undermine science and to delay action

569
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:41,120
paper critique of contemporary western

570
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:43,120
astrology

571
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:44,880
this long

572
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,159
very long

573
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,400
but readable paper by a couple of

574
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,320
canadian yay

575
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:52,640
academics is a critical examination of

576
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:55,280
the concepts and assumptions underlying

577
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:56,880
the practices of the majority of

578
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:59,280
astrologers in the contemporary western

579
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:00,559
world

580
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:03,679
quote astrology as typically practiced

581
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:06,799
as a kind of science has no plausible

582
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:09,280
non-paranormal explanation it is not

583
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:11,440
even clear by any means what even a

584
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:13,600
paranormal or supernatural explanation

585
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:16,559
for astrology would look like end quote

586
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:19,039
western australia skeptic jeffrey dean

587
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:26,070
haunted house experience reveals

588
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:27,919
insights on the body's reaction to

589
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:29,440
threats

590
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:31,919
california institute of tech researchers

591
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,240
wire up volunteers for a haunted house

592
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,880
experiment and discover that being with

593
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:39,120
others in the house increases overall

594
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:42,400
arousal that unexpected scares produce

595
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,799
more responses and higher levels of

596
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:46,960
responses in the body than predictable

597
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,159
scares

598
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:50,400
and that more frequent responses from

599
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,159
the body manifest us feeling more afraid

600
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:56,480
we probably could have told them that

601
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,240
but it's nice to have the numbers based

602
00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:00,720
on quote an intensive immersive

603
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,950
live-action threat environment end quote

604
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:05,360
[Music]

605
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:07,919
the most outlandish pseudoscience sold

606
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,279
on amazon

607
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,440
okay there's a lot of weird stuff on

608
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,159
amazon but in among the homeopathy and

609
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:16,799
reflexology there are magnetic products

610
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:20,960
cancer cures diy ear acupuncture using

611
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:24,960
seeds and not needles and real live

612
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:26,400
snake oil

613
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:27,440
well

614
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:30,240
not real or live and we're pretty sure

615
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:32,720
someone is being a tan sarcastic on that

616
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:39,029
uk students take on the quote

617
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:42,640
pseudoscience crisis end quote

618
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:44,960
founders of cambridge based students

619
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,039
against pseudoscience talk about the new

620
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,919
organization started to quote open up

621
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:51,760
discourse and to empower future

622
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,000
scientists and decision makers end quote

623
00:25:03,590 --> 00:24:56,559
on pseudoscience quote a threat to

624
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:06,710
we're working on the march 2022 issue of

625
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:09,120
the skeptic but in the meantime you

626
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:11,840
really can't go past the december 2021

627
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:14,799
issue it features complete coverage of

628
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:16,880
the great australian psychic prediction

629
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:19,360
project possibly the largest of its kind

630
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:21,679
ever undertaken and destined to be a

631
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:23,440
reference for future discussion on the

632
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:26,320
topic of psychics

633
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,120
so

634
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:29,200
if you haven't subscribed yet now is the

635
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:31,679
time to do so contact the editor if

636
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:33,120
you're not sure if your existing

637
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:36,240
subscription needs renewing

638
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,720
items of interest

639
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:40,480
travel tip

640
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:43,279
tulumba's paranormal sites

641
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:45,200
apparently the queensland city is

642
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:47,840
australia's paranormal capital here's a

643
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:49,919
list of some of the best places to get

644
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:53,039
spooked in the meantime here is an older

645
00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:55,760
article asking quote is tuwumba

646
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:58,960
australia's most haunted town end quote

647
00:26:03,029 --> 00:26:00,720
it gives the background on the city's

648
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,039
reputation with a few spoilsport

649
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:05,440
skeptics at the end ruining it for

650
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:09,200
everyone but good for them

651
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:11,760
house haunted by a shotgun wielding

652
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:13,120
ghost

653
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:16,159
martin roberts a uk tv presenter on home

654
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,120
renovations says his own home is haunted

655
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:21,840
by various spirits including a man with

656
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:25,360
a shotgun or the ghost of a shotgun

657
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:28,240
despite his best efforts the ghosts

658
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:31,039
refused to leave their home so roberts

659
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:33,279
put out christmas stockings with quote

660
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:37,039
toys a beer and slippers end quote

661
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:40,080
really you're going to give beer to a

662
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:42,000
ghost with a gun

663
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:44,880
[Laughter]

664
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,120
and now for more giggles because it's

665
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:50,159
the silliest story of the week time

666
00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:54,000
jesus spotted in antarctica

667
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:56,720
not the person of course but a lightness

668
00:27:02,149 --> 00:26:59,200
in a rock formation but at least it

669
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:02,159
wasn't toast it's also near a huge

670
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:04,480
figure of an alien in the snow which

671
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:08,000
makes sense because quote jesus was an

672
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,760
alien who came to earth to instill

673
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:12,320
morals and rules to help a chaotic early

674
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:15,840
humans rise to enlightenment end quote

675
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:17,150
oh dear

676
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:20,960
[Music]

677
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:23,600
until next time this is adrian hill

678
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:00,070
[Music]

679
00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:47,500
a

680
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:57,430
[Music]

681
00:29:01,590 --> 00:28:59,200
now here's some bits and pieces some

682
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:01,600
news and information and updates

683
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:03,679
events and so on from the skeptical

684
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,720
world canberra skeptics proudly presents

685
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:08,559
psychedelic assisted therapies for

686
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:10,960
mental illness and why innovation in

687
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,120
treatment is needed now more than ever

688
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:15,440
and this will be a talk on tuesday the

689
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:19,120
15th of february 2022 from 6 pm

690
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:21,840
the speakers are tanya dijong

691
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:25,279
and and dr jennifer laughing

692
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:27,520
it's an interesting point of view if you

693
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:29,360
want to find out more

694
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:31,440
have a listen and maybe pose some

695
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,880
questions

696
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:33,919
then

697
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,440
join that canberra skeptics event and i

698
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:38,960
will put a link in this week's show

699
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,320
notes also coming up very soon this

700
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:44,399
thursday in fact here

701
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:45,360
in

702
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:49,679
we have our

703
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:51,600
monthly talk

704
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:53,679
this time pontus berkman who you heard

705
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:55,679
on the skeptic zone last week

706
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:57,919
pontus will be talking about skeptical

707
00:30:02,389 --> 00:30:00,720
monday keeping momentum during a

708
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,399
pandemic

709
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:04,559
pontus from the sweetie skeptics talks

710
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:06,960
about how to keep the skeptical movement

711
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:10,720
and activism going even as lockdown and

712
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,960
restrictions prevent a lot of the usual

713
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,399
activities

714
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:16,559
pontus is the president of the swedish

715
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:19,840
skeptics vof and the founding co-host of

716
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:23,440
the esp the european skeptics podcast he

717
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:26,799
is also a board member of the ecso the

718
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:28,559
european council of skeptical

719
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:29,840
organizations

720
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:32,159
that's skeptics in the pub from sydney

721
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:33,840
there will be a link in this week's show

722
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:36,559
notes if you want to join in and that is

723
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,520
normally

724
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,679
broadcast on twitch but you can

725
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:41,600
certainly ask questions of our guest

726
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:44,720
speaker this time pontus berkman

727
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:47,120
on february the 21st i'll be speaking

728
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:48,840
for the gold coast

729
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:51,279
skeptics my talk will be strange

730
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:54,640
energies and even stranger devices

731
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,480
you wouldn't believe the

732
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,799
incredible machines and gadgets and

733
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:00,880
electronic bits and pieces

734
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:03,039
that people

735
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:05,760
pedal flog pedal

736
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:07,360
that simply cannot

737
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,159
and do not work

738
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:12,240
but i will link to all those events in

739
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:14,230
this week's show notes so have a look

740
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:15,919
[Music]

741
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:18,399
and finally a follow-up from a story i

742
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:19,840
brought you last week

743
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:21,919
about a reiki master and tarot card

744
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:24,640
reader from mullan bimby by the name of

745
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:26,080
uh helen dean

746
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:28,640
who at last report when i reported to

747
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:29,440
you

748
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:32,080
was recovering in

749
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,440
hospital from

750
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:36,080
over 19 well sadly very very sadly of

751
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,200
course

752
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:40,320
she didn't end up recovering and she

753
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:42,399
passed away

754
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:43,600
from

755
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:46,159
covert 19.

756
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:47,679
and what's particularly sad about this

757
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:48,559
story

758
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:50,640
is the reports coming in

759
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:53,679
uh speak of her wonderful community

760
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:55,440
spirit her

761
00:31:58,789 --> 00:31:57,519
her love and support for many people in

762
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:58,799
that area

763
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:00,880
for various reasons

764
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,080
uh and she seemed to be a genuinely nice

765
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:05,840
person

766
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:07,200
who sadly

767
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,399
listened to the anti-vaxxers and the

768
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:12,240
conspiracy theorists

769
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:13,120
and

770
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:15,440
apparently was not vaccinated

771
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:17,679
and i noticed the gofundme that was set

772
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,000
up to support her in hospital has now

773
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:22,480
been changed to raise funds for a

774
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,830
yes a sad update indeed we don't wish um

775
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:32,240
covert deaths on anybody but

776
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:34,880
particularly sad because this could have

777
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:37,760
been prevented

778
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:01,590
foreign

779
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,620
tv

780
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:06,850
[Applause]

781
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:21,669
now it's time once again to look into

782
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:25,919
those pages at trove at trove.nla.gov.eu

783
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,600
your online resource for australian

784
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,360
digitized newspapers magazines

785
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,840
periodicals and so on

786
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:33,279
and this week we'll be looking further

787
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:34,880
afield once again

788
00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:38,159
diving into some american digitized

789
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:40,740
newspapers

790
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:43,600
[Music]

791
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:45,919
and this week we'll look at that classic

792
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:49,840
that classic of old-fashioned skepticism

793
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:51,279
something you really don't hear about

794
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:52,799
much anymore

795
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,919
kirlian

796
00:34:02,710 --> 00:33:56,080
photography

797
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:02,720
remember in the mid 70s it was the new

798
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:05,360
waves for science to prove the

799
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:06,399
supernatural

800
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:09,440
or auras or something mysterious it was

801
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:12,159
very popular lots of news and tv

802
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:14,079
segments on it at the time

803
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,599
i remember

804
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:17,200
but of course now you don't hear about

805
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:19,839
it which is a big clue it's a big clue

806
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:22,320
that it really didn't amount to much at

807
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:24,000
all

808
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:26,480
now you might remember this

809
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,320
yourself

810
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,159
tv reports of

811
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,480
a leaf for example being put on a glass

812
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,800
plate some electricity being passed

813
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:36,720
through it

814
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,320
created some sort of

815
00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:40,720
coronal discharge then the top of the

816
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:42,800
leaf would be cut off

817
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:45,599
process repeated and lo and behold

818
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:48,879
the coronal aura or the um the pattern

819
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:51,599
of the electricity would indicate that

820
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:55,280
the leaf was whole again ooh a phantom

821
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:56,879
spiritly for

822
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:59,040
something like that and if i remember

823
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,520
correctly that was later

824
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:03,200
shown to be the fact that the leaf was

825
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,320
pressed against the glass plate and

826
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,480
and the residual moisture

827
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:10,800
was uh really responsible for the

828
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:13,359
phantom leaf effect

829
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:14,720
however let's quickly look at skeptic

830
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:16,880
skeptic.com

831
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:18,560
girlian photography

832
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:21,599
electro photography

833
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:24,160
in 1939

834
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:25,359
simeon

835
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:27,040
kirlian now

836
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:29,119
in russian i expect it's pronounced

837
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:31,200
something different but i've always only

838
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:33,359
known it as curling

839
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:35,359
discovered by accident that if an object

840
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:37,359
on a photographic plate is subject to a

841
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:40,720
high voltage electric field an image is

842
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:43,040
created on the plate the image looks

843
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:47,359
like a colored halo or coronal discharge

844
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:50,000
this image is said to be

845
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:52,400
a physical manifestation of the

846
00:35:57,910 --> 00:35:54,960
spiritual aura or

847
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:57,920
life force which allegedly surrounds

848
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,160
each living thing

849
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:02,720
allegedly this special method of

850
00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:04,880
photographing subjects is a gateway to

851
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,040
the paranormal world of auroras

852
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,359
actually what is recorded is due to

853
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:11,280
quite natural phenomenon such as

854
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,240
pressure electrical grounding humidity

855
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:16,400
and temperature changes in moisture

856
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:20,000
which may reflect changes in emotions

857
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:22,880
barometric pressure and voltage among

858
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,760
other things will produce different

859
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:27,200
auras

860
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:28,800
and there's a reference here that says

861
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,280
living things are moist

862
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,800
when electricity enters the living

863
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:35,040
object it produces an area of gas

864
00:36:38,069 --> 00:36:37,119
ionization around the photographed

865
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:38,079
object

866
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:40,160
assuming moisture is present on the

867
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:41,119
object

868
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:43,119
this moisture is transferred from the

869
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:45,920
subject to the emulsion surface of the

870
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:48,079
photographic film and causes an

871
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:49,839
alteration of the electric charge

872
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:51,680
pattern on the film

873
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:54,079
if a photograph is taken in a vacuum

874
00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:57,280
where no ionized gas is present no

875
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,160
curling image appears if the curling

876
00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:02,720
image were due to some paranormal

877
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:04,960
fundamental living energy field it

878
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:08,079
should not disappear in a simple vacuum

879
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:09,280
and that's

880
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:12,480
heinz 2003 is the reference

881
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:13,440
so

882
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,960
yes it's no mystery anymore

883
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,079
but let's

884
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,160
let's put ourselves in the mindset of

885
00:37:23,829 --> 00:37:22,560
those people in the 1970s

886
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:23,839
maybe like me

887
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:26,160
seeing it on tv for the first time and

888
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:29,920
simply not knowing or understanding

889
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,400
what it really was

890
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:34,560
now this trove is a little different

891
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:35,680
because

892
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,320
what i have discovered

893
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:41,040
uh are references to curling photography

894
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:43,040
but sort of

895
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:52,069
[Music]

896
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:54,160
and our first item here comes from the

897
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:55,599
canberra times

898
00:38:02,150 --> 00:37:59,920
dated the 4th of january 1974.

899
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:02,160
the new wizardry and there's a

900
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,680
photograph at the top which is a little

901
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:05,119
hard to make out

902
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:07,920
but the caption says curly and photo

903
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:11,680
high frequency electrical photograph of

904
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:14,160
a fingertip greatly magnified

905
00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:16,880
from psy psychic

906
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:20,880
discoveries behind the iron curtain

907
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:23,359
and this is indeed a book review

908
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:26,640
psy psychic discoveries behind the iron

909
00:38:33,630 --> 00:38:29,359
curtain by sheila ostrander

910
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:36,390
446 pages

911
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:37,760
three dollars

912
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:41,520
reviewer ronald j evans

913
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,000
psy psychic discoveries behind the iron

914
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:46,400
curtain seems like a colorful trip

915
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:49,520
back through time

916
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,079
all the witches and demons are there

917
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:54,880
dragged up from the murky subconscious

918
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:56,960
you'll meet some bizarre characters from

919
00:39:02,870 --> 00:38:59,680
old fortune tellers in bulgaria to

920
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:02,880
rasputin-like mediums in moscow itself

921
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:05,119
the real message in the book is not

922
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,320
clear

923
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:08,400
there are many confusing side issues

924
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:10,960
ranging from ufos to telepathy to outer

925
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:14,160
space to studies on reincarnation but

926
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:16,720
once all the laughter has subsided you

927
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:18,720
are tempted to think seriously about

928
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:21,760
what you've just read i have never had

929
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:25,440
any doubts about thought transference

930
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:27,520
telepathy can occur between selected

931
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:29,680
individuals even over quite long

932
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:31,040
distances

933
00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:32,960
the lover feels a strong emotion when

934
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:35,599
his partner is injured

935
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:37,680
mothers have nightmares when their

936
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:41,359
children are in mortal danger

937
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,160
one mind can tune into another although

938
00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:46,560
the actual medium through which thoughts

939
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:49,119
travel still baffles the boffins

940
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:51,599
the book suggests a few ways for us to

941
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:54,000
develop this sixth sense

942
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:55,760
for ourselves

943
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:58,240
through the authors we meet

944
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:59,440
nelia

945
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:01,040
mikhaileva

946
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:04,079
a pk medium in leningrad

947
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,040
she can focus her thoughts to move or

948
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,040
rotate small objects

949
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:11,359
you just place a matchbox on the table

950
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:12,800
in front of her

951
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:15,280
she concentrates very intensely and

952
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:16,800
behold

953
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:19,280
the matchbox will actually move

954
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:21,680
given the right conditions

955
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:24,720
some may laugh

956
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:29,760
films about it well there you go

957
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:32,560
the whole world of levitation reopens

958
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:33,599
for us

959
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:36,240
the soviets are experimenting on thought

960
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,680
transference between man and animals and

961
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:41,359
the conditions for

962
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:45,440
willing an idea into someone's head

963
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:48,079
the next alarming report concerns

964
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:50,960
kirlian photography this technique

965
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:53,440
purports to demonstrate an energy field

966
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,240
possessed by all living tissues

967
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:58,560
high energy electrical fields amplify

968
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:01,599
low energy phenomena so that the viewer

969
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,400
sees a sort of test pattern

970
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,880
of the living world and what a world to

971
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,160
behold

972
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:10,160
looking at leaves and fingertips under

973
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:11,280
the machine

974
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,000
one sees an aura of sparkling colors

975
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:16,480
like fireworks the authors suggest that

976
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,400
this is some form of ghost or halo

977
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:22,079
for the saints

978
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:24,640
the researchers claim they can predict

979
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,040
disease well in advance quite

980
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:29,760
fascinating is this how fortune tellers

981
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:32,480
tell your fortune the style of this book

982
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:35,839
is concise but not scientific

983
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:36,720
really

984
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:38,480
you surprise me

985
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,640
the observations are patchy and poorly

986
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:42,079
collated

987
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:45,359
all the well-used questions about

988
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,160
telepathy and ghosts are revived with

989
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:50,800
the breath of soviet science

990
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:53,680
the narrative leaves you with an uncanny

991
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:54,800
feeling

992
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,560
large areas of the mind seem to be

993
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,560
awaiting our exploration

994
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:01,200
vast powers of thought control telepathy

995
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:05,200
and accelerated learning lie dormant yet

996
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:08,400
we are still unsure just how to go about

997
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:11,680
the search the authors of psy psychic

998
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:13,440
discoveries behind the iron curtains

999
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:16,880
seem to be under a sort of soviet spell

1000
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:19,200
themselves they give the impression that

1001
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:21,839
the russians are building a scientific

1002
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:24,560
bridge back to the mystical religions of

1003
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,280
the east with all the incumbent

1004
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,200
superstition there is something here for

1005
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:32,079
everyone people with a nostalgia for the

1006
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,000
cold war will be alarmed by the

1007
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:36,000
suggestion that the russians are working

1008
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:40,000
on thought machines for use against the

1009
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:40,960
west

1010
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:42,960
and that's very interesting when was

1011
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:45,920
that 1974

1012
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:47,760
so that was many years before james

1013
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,319
randy traveled to russia to look at and

1014
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:52,800
test some of these psychics for himself

1015
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:55,599
and i recommend recommend recommend you

1016
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:57,440
go to youtube and look up

1017
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:01,200
secrets of the psychic james randy nova

1018
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:02,800
and that's when

1019
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:05,359
1991

1020
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:07,760
1990 around that era

1021
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:08,960
randy

1022
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,280
did lots of interesting tests

1023
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:12,960
in moscow

1024
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:14,319
now as i said this week is a bit

1025
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:15,599
different because

1026
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:18,000
there's not that much directly related

1027
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,920
to curling photography however it does

1028
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:21,760
get a mention in other articles and i

1029
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:23,359
think we'll go

1030
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:25,359
down that avenue we'll

1031
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:28,000
make a tangent we'll do a right turn

1032
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:29,440
a u-turn

1033
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:35,670
and finally we come to the united states

1034
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:37,760
from the register

1035
00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:43,520
dated sunday the 4th of january 1976

1036
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:47,359
by bob kirkpatrick staff writer and i

1037
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:49,520
didn't know where the register was based

1038
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:52,079
it's i think it's in california

1039
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:54,400
strange things have been happening to

1040
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:56,640
the younger set in southern california

1041
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:58,640
involving the spooky

1042
00:44:03,109 --> 00:44:01,119
little understood netherworld of

1043
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:03,119
parapsychology

1044
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:05,760
all of its smacks of the powers

1045
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:07,119
exhibited by

1046
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:09,680
geller the renowned israeli psychic who

1047
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:12,400
bends keys and kitchenware with the

1048
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:14,800
slightest touch of his fingers

1049
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:18,880
and the unfathomable forces of his mind

1050
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:21,280
now just stop there this is a great

1051
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:22,800
example

1052
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:26,560
of how things are written in newspapers

1053
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:30,240
uh which help uh propel a myth

1054
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,040
in other words he writes here

1055
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:35,040
that uraguella

1056
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:37,839
ben's kitchen where with the slightest

1057
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:40,000
touch of his fingers

1058
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:41,119
well no

1059
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:42,640
it doesn't work that way the trick

1060
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,800
doesn't work that way but that's

1061
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:46,880
very easy later on

1062
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:48,800
to write these words and people get the

1063
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,720
wrong impression

1064
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,480
geller's extraordinary powers have

1065
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:55,760
baffled millions of tv viewers worldwide

1066
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:57,839
as well as confounding science

1067
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,400
researchers at the prestigious stanford

1068
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:02,400
research institute

1069
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,880
and if you read the book by james randy

1070
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:06,400
where is it i have it over here the

1071
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:08,640
truth about yuri gala

1072
00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:11,040
you uh certainly don't have much respect

1073
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:13,760
for that institution

1074
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:16,160
goes on at king's college london

1075
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:17,599
university and

1076
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:20,000
and at burbeck college university of

1077
00:45:23,270 --> 00:45:21,040
london

1078
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:23,280
maligned is a charlatan and super

1079
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:26,079
magician by skeptics members of the news

1080
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:28,640
media and a host of envious magicians

1081
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:31,440
geller's powers of psychokinesis

1082
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,680
century's perception and telepathy are

1083
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:35,280
nevertheless

1084
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:37,839
accepted as real by many authorities in

1085
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:40,960
the field of parapsychology

1086
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,400
that does not surprise me

1087
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:46,480
one little bit

1088
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:48,000
and if you know the story of the alpha

1089
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:49,040
kids

1090
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:50,960
the two uh

1091
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:53,680
young guys who fooled easily fooled

1092
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,720
parapsychologists well that could be a

1093
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,480
story for another day

1094
00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:00,480
girl of freely admits that he doesn't

1095
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,960
understand his powers

1096
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:04,560
ah keep stopping

1097
00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:07,920
geller understands his powers

1098
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:12,550
you can't do these tricks without

1099
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:15,040
understanding

1100
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,599
can only speculate on the source of his

1101
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:20,160
mental gifts but insists that these

1102
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:23,440
unique powers are latent in us all

1103
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,119
waiting to be tapped

1104
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:27,040
three southern california youngsters

1105
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:29,760
will agree with geller they have tuned

1106
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:30,480
in

1107
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:32,720
on this strange force too

1108
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:35,839
take colleen cummins of long beach for

1109
00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:39,280
example she too has mangled stainless

1110
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:41,920
steel silverware items of jewelry and

1111
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,079
assorted metal objects but there this

1112
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:46,240
similarity ends

1113
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:49,200
colleen is 16. she's beautiful a

1114
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:51,440
striking brunette with sparkling dark

1115
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:54,160
eyes and an easy smile this high school

1116
00:47:01,349 --> 00:46:58,480
charmer is neither kooky nor spooky

1117
00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:01,359
and until recently she has thoroughly

1118
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:02,960
enjoyed quote

1119
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,240
doing her thing end quote for everyone

1120
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:08,880
for school chums for universities for

1121
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:11,920
newsmen even for parapsychological

1122
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:13,680
experimenters

1123
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:15,839
now you'll stop there quickly again i i

1124
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:17,440
looked her up and i couldn't find any

1125
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:19,200
references to her so

1126
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,920
i guess it was just a flash in the pan

1127
00:47:25,630 --> 00:47:23,280
thing at the time

1128
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:25,640
she discovered her unusual power in an

1129
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:28,400
unspectacular manner but has been doing

1130
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:31,040
some spectacular things ever since

1131
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,400
together with her father dr b l cummins

1132
00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:36,880
a long beach gynecologist she was

1133
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:39,760
watching gala perform on tv

1134
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:41,839
both were intrigued as geller bent metal

1135
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:44,240
objects by concentrating on them and

1136
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:47,119
gently stroking them with his fingers

1137
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:51,200
willing them to twist out of shape

1138
00:47:55,109 --> 00:47:53,920
let's try that ourselves dr cummins

1139
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,119
suggested

1140
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:57,280
fetching some stainless steel silverware

1141
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:58,880
from the kitchen the two attempted to

1142
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:01,119
emulate geller's performance

1143
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:04,000
dr cummins failed not so

1144
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:05,040
colleen

1145
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:07,520
in a few minutes she recalled

1146
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:10,720
the spoon she was stroking became

1147
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:13,599
warm to the touch as she described it

1148
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:16,960
her fingers sensed a feeling of fluidity

1149
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:18,720
a peculiar

1150
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:21,440
malleability bordering on

1151
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:23,520
a liquid flow

1152
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:26,480
exerting no pressure she related she

1153
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:30,800
felt the spoon's stem arc to a 45 degree

1154
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:33,040
angle to 90 degrees

1155
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:35,119
then continue until it had

1156
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,839
bent completely double

1157
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:39,760
the winsome brunette

1158
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:42,800
was admittedly shaken by her discovery

1159
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,599
but not for long with the encouragement

1160
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:47,520
of her parents she came to accept her

1161
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:49,839
strange ability with an equanimity

1162
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:52,160
beyond her years colleen freely

1163
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:54,960
demonstrated her psychokinetic power

1164
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:58,079
the production or alteration of motion

1165
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:01,280
in a object by influence of the mind

1166
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:02,720
to all comers

1167
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,520
unlike geller she hasn't earned a

1168
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:07,359
roosevelt dime

1169
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:08,960
for her efforts

1170
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:11,359
she once won a one dollar bet

1171
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:14,000
with a school chum skeptic she admits by

1172
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,400
making a cafeteria spoon

1173
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:18,559
writhe out of shape

1174
00:49:24,069 --> 00:49:21,680
but her mother made her return the loot

1175
00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:24,079
colleen accepted an invitation to

1176
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:26,720
perform at a class conducted by

1177
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:29,280
professor alvin h lawson at the

1178
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:32,400
california state university long beach

1179
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,400
while a series of psychics were

1180
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:37,200
lecturing on paranormal phenomena

1181
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:39,520
colleen sat in the rear of the classroom

1182
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:41,680
awaiting her turn before the class

1183
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:44,720
unaware that the closed circuit tv was

1184
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:46,559
training on her

1185
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:49,119
she practiced her metal bending

1186
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,359
on a stainless steel fork

1187
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:53,520
her mother a student in the evening

1188
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:56,079
class sat beside her fascinated i

1189
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:58,240
watched the tv monitor and saw her bend

1190
00:50:02,630 --> 00:49:59,839
the fork double

1191
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,640
then twist the tines in different

1192
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:05,040
directions all with the touch of her

1193
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,079
delicate fingers and some undefined

1194
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:10,400
power of her mind

1195
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:12,960
later in front of the class colleen had

1196
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:15,760
little success with the second kitchen

1197
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,800
implement

1198
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:18,960
the unfamiliar surroundings the tension

1199
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:21,200
within her and the desire to succeed on

1200
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:24,160
demand coupled with an aura of impatient

1201
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:26,559
expectation mingled with

1202
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:30,000
hostile skepticism

1203
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:32,800
apparently short-circuited her power

1204
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:34,800
negative results

1205
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:38,240
it's an interesting hostile skepticism

1206
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:41,040
there's bad skeptics this is so often

1207
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:44,400
the case with psychics remark dr thelma

1208
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:45,359
moss

1209
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:47,920
now i think that name's come up before

1210
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,119
research psychologist at ucla's

1211
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:53,440
department of neuropsychiatry when i

1212
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:55,760
describe the incident to her when called

1213
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:57,359
upon to perform

1214
00:51:02,950 --> 00:50:59,839
when under pressure or in an atmosphere

1215
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:02,960
of hostility or skepticism it frequently

1216
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:05,280
happens they can't perform and a quick

1217
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:06,640
note from me

1218
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:10,640
in an atmosphere of skepticism

1219
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:13,280
yeah you can read for that um when

1220
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:14,319
proper

1221
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:15,680
controls

1222
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,000
and uh

1223
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,400
proper scientific rigor is

1224
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:22,319
is used

1225
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:25,280
magically enough so to speak the psychic

1226
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:27,119
power disappears

1227
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:28,559
convinced of the

1228
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:30,800
genuineness of her power

1229
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:33,040
i interviewed colleen in her home at a

1230
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,480
later date

1231
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,200
the atmosphere in her luxurious living

1232
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:39,920
room was friendly and relaxed as we

1233
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:42,000
chatted easily about her activities at

1234
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:45,040
school her interest in church activities

1235
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:47,200
and how her parents and brothers felt

1236
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:49,280
about her newly found psychokinetic

1237
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:51,760
power and let me stop here once again

1238
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:52,800
i'm just

1239
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:54,160
it's just

1240
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:56,880
occurring to me but i think at the time

1241
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:59,119
here in australia also

1242
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:00,960
popped up in the

1243
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:03,599
mid to late 70s other

1244
00:52:06,870 --> 00:52:04,720
youngsters

1245
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,880
who learned the trick and then

1246
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:08,960
found fleeting fame

1247
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:11,280
fooling fellow students and reporters

1248
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,319
and whatever

1249
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,040
in fact there was one child referred to

1250
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:17,599
as ori the melbourne boy

1251
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:19,440
in the documentary james randy in

1252
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,559
australia from 1980 and whoever ori the

1253
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:24,720
melbourne boy was bent a spoon for a

1254
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:27,200
reporter and that reporter was convinced

1255
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:29,040
at the time that the boy had special

1256
00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:30,880
powers

1257
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:32,559
okay we go on

1258
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:35,119
as we talked she gently stroked a heavy

1259
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:37,200
gauge stainless steel fork which i had

1260
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:38,800
brought with me

1261
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:39,599
no

1262
00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:41,440
it really doesn't matter if you

1263
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:43,520
interrupt me with questions colin

1264
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,720
reassured me with a flashing smile

1265
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:48,640
actually it's better this way

1266
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:50,960
it's much better if we continue just

1267
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:53,520
talking rather than sit here quietly and

1268
00:52:58,150 --> 00:52:55,280
wait for something to happen

1269
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,160
we talked and it happened

1270
00:53:02,230 --> 00:53:00,400
fifteen minutes later colleen remarked

1271
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:02,240
it's getting warm

1272
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:05,040
i can feel it now i don't know how to

1273
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,280
describe it it's almost as if there were

1274
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:09,839
no fork between my finger and my thumb

1275
00:53:15,670 --> 00:53:12,160
it's as though i can feel my finger

1276
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:15,680
touching my thumb we stopped momentarily

1277
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:18,400
to examine the fork it had bent to an

1278
00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:21,200
almost 90 degree angle colleen

1279
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:24,160
resumed stroking the fork gently afraid

1280
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,079
to shatter the spell i kept silent and

1281
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:28,400
watched intently in a few minutes the

1282
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:31,920
fork had bent even more now 120 degrees

1283
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,160
from its original shape colleen gave it

1284
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:36,880
to me to examine i was convinced no

1285
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:40,640
trickery no hocus pocus

1286
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:43,359
no sleight of hand oh dear

1287
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:46,079
i asked if i might keep the fork

1288
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:47,440
in evidence

1289
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:50,000
i joked colleen flashed a broad smile of

1290
00:53:55,109 --> 00:53:52,160
course we a week later with the consent

1291
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:55,119
of her parents i escorted colleen to dr

1292
00:54:01,030 --> 00:53:58,559
moss research laboratory at ucla

1293
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:01,040
dr moss had expressed keen interest in

1294
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:03,599
colleen and wanted to see her perform

1295
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:05,760
i had some misgivings upon entering dr

1296
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:07,440
moss's laboratory

1297
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:09,760
it was relatively small

1298
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:12,319
and crowded with research associates dr

1299
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,240
moss was busily engaged in here it comes

1300
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:18,319
curling photography

1301
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:20,800
experiments but she found time to greet

1302
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:23,680
us and settle colleen into a chair

1303
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:26,079
at one corner of the tiny lab

1304
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:27,680
all of us gathered around to watch

1305
00:54:31,990 --> 00:54:30,319
colleen stroke a nail then a stainless

1306
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:32,000
steel fork

1307
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:33,119
nothing

1308
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:34,960
colleen was embarrassed and we were

1309
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:36,319
sympathetic but

1310
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:38,480
undeniably disappointed

1311
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:40,400
someone suggested that colleen be taken

1312
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:43,040
to dr moss's private office two floors

1313
00:54:48,549 --> 00:54:45,280
below for observation in quiet

1314
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:48,559
surroundings removed from the hubbub

1315
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:50,240
in the busy lab

1316
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:53,119
young jim cole a psychologist working on

1317
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:55,440
his master's degree and doing research

1318
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:58,079
in psychic healing

1319
00:55:03,190 --> 00:55:00,240
volunteered to accompany colleen a

1320
00:55:05,750 --> 00:55:03,200
handsome young man in his late 20s with

1321
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:05,760
a neatly trimmed beard and an easy

1322
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:08,079
manner which quickly won

1323
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:09,520
colleen's trust

1324
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:12,640
jim led us to the quiet solitude of dr

1325
00:55:17,829 --> 00:55:14,640
moss's office

1326
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:17,839
it was agreed that if colleen achieved

1327
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:19,920
any success jim would immediately alert

1328
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:22,960
dr moss by phone

1329
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:25,040
i don't think you could get further away

1330
00:55:28,470 --> 00:55:27,119
from any sort of scientific protocols

1331
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:28,480
than this

1332
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:31,040
as we watched colleen proceeded to

1333
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:33,440
stroke the fork gently willing it to

1334
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:34,799
bend

1335
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:37,839
suddenly she turned to me and remarked

1336
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:40,000
i think something's beginning to happen

1337
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:41,359
it's getting warm

1338
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:43,760
some 15 minutes later cole telephoned

1339
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:44,880
the lab

1340
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,119
sure enough it's happened

1341
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,440
he told dr moss

1342
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,000
she hastened to her office where jim and

1343
00:55:58,309 --> 00:55:54,480
colleen happily presented the fork bent

1344
00:55:59,430 --> 00:55:58,319
beyond a 100 degree angle for her

1345
00:56:01,910 --> 00:55:59,440
inspection

1346
00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:01,920
she did it she did it shuttle dr moss

1347
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:04,640
happily wow

1348
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:06,559
that that's that's all the evidence that

1349
00:56:10,230 --> 00:56:08,559
this dr moss needed

1350
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:10,240
good grief

1351
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:12,880
it's the darndest thing i've ever seen

1352
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:15,280
was the only comment jim could offer

1353
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:17,440
with a rye grin

1354
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:19,119
colleen's mounting powers of

1355
00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:21,599
psychokinesis came to an abrupt end

1356
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,599
later following a traumatic experience

1357
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:25,359
while undergoing experiments at the

1358
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:27,200
lawrence livermore laboratories last

1359
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:29,680
summer placed under hypnosis during one

1360
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:31,599
experiment her mother-elated

1361
00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:34,240
psychologist had difficulty waking her

1362
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:35,839
from her trance

1363
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,079
reportedly it took three hours to break

1364
00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:40,960
her hypnotic spell and she almost missed

1365
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:43,440
the plane returning her to long beach

1366
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:45,599
but prior to this mishap colleen said

1367
00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:48,160
she had succeeded in producing the

1368
00:56:53,829 --> 00:56:51,119
geller effect on plastic wear

1369
00:56:56,549 --> 00:56:53,839
some thing she claims geller has not

1370
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:56,559
been able to do in addition she reports

1371
00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:00,079
she managed to mangle a dishwasher full

1372
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:02,240
of silverware at home before reporting

1373
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:05,200
to livermore for testing while at the

1374
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:08,000
laboratories there colleen met israeli

1375
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,559
psychic geller also undergoing tests and

1376
00:57:16,390 --> 00:57:13,359
had a chance to compare notes with him

1377
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:16,400
on her experiences with psychokinetic

1378
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:17,760
power

1379
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:19,920
can you imagine

1380
00:57:25,589 --> 00:57:23,280
been that would have been

1381
00:57:27,910 --> 00:57:25,599
a strange thing indeed

1382
00:57:29,349 --> 00:57:27,920
because both this young lady and gala

1383
00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:29,359
would have been

1384
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:32,079
happily um telling the other one that

1385
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,470
oh dear can you imagine on returning

1386
00:57:43,109 --> 00:57:40,559
from livermore colleen halted all

1387
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:43,119
experimentation member of a deeply

1388
00:57:48,390 --> 00:57:45,760
religious family and herself active in

1389
00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:48,400
the church of latter-day saints

1390
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:51,359
she chose to shun the strange world of

1391
00:57:55,349 --> 00:57:52,880
paranormality

1392
00:57:57,910 --> 00:57:55,359
as a mother put it colleen has lost all

1393
00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:57,920
interest in this area and wants to

1394
00:58:02,069 --> 00:57:59,920
forget the whole thing she wants to

1395
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,079
regard it simply as one

1396
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:04,559
episode in her life and turn her

1397
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:06,480
attention to other things

1398
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:08,160
extraordinary

1399
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:09,839
well

1400
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:12,720
by bob kirkpatrick

1401
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:14,799
staff writer

1402
00:58:19,030 --> 00:58:17,040
uh it i can't help thinking of the times

1403
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:19,040
that i've had fun with journalists

1404
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,599
tv reporters over the years bending

1405
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:24,000
spoons and so on in a similar manner but

1406
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:25,440
of course

1407
00:58:29,270 --> 00:58:27,839
i always tell them it's a trick

1408
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:29,280
and

1409
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:31,200
we all have a laugh

1410
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:32,960
but i guess it came a bit too much for

1411
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:34,880
this young lady

1412
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,640
and uh i guess he simply lost interest

1413
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:40,240
well there we go

1414
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:43,280
a couple of very strange side excursions

1415
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:44,640
tangents

1416
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:45,680
there

1417
00:58:50,470 --> 00:58:48,240
on the theme of curling photography but

1418
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:50,480
i'm sort of glad it went that way i

1419
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:51,680
really

1420
00:58:58,230 --> 00:58:55,920
report

1421
00:59:01,109 --> 00:58:58,240
which is entitled if i didn't mention it

1422
00:59:05,829 --> 00:59:01,119
before junior set on psychic bender

1423
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:08,309
now on next week's trove we'll be taking

1424
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:10,799
a closer look at some more reports of

1425
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:15,520
psychic kids in the 1970s

1426
00:59:19,030 --> 00:59:16,640
again

1427
00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:19,040
written by bob kirkpatrick and the

1428
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:22,000
register as it happens is the i've

1429
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:26,000
discovered is the santa ana register

1430
00:59:29,349 --> 00:59:27,520
and to give you a little taste of next

1431
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:29,359
week this will be a report from the 4th

1432
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:32,559
of january 1976 county boys explore

1433
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:34,559
eerie psychic world

1434
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:37,280
two orange county youngsters have joined

1435
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:39,760
the spoon bending set duplicating the

1436
00:59:44,300 --> 00:59:42,720
psychokinetic power of israeli psychic

1437
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:44,310
hirigela

1438
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:49,670
and

1439
00:59:53,950 --> 00:59:52,000
you too can get to the bottom of many

1440
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:53,960
tricks by going to trove at

1441
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:56,880
trove.nla.gov dot a u or no matter where

1442
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:58,559
you are in the world it's worth looking

1443
01:00:03,910 --> 01:00:01,200
up your local online libraries or

1444
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,920
references to historical newspapers and

1445
01:00:12,540 --> 01:00:05,680
you'll never know

1446
01:00:12,550 --> 01:00:30,789
[Music]

1447
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:32,230
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1448
01:00:36,549 --> 01:00:34,160
zone on next week's show

1449
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:36,559
another story from the same reporter bob

1450
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:39,200
kirkpatrick who reported on the um

1451
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:42,559
spoon bending uh school student he found

1452
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:46,319
more yes he found more spoon benders and

1453
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:48,319
psychic kids

1454
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:49,599
in the day

1455
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:52,160
a fascinating story coming up for next

1456
01:00:56,789 --> 01:00:54,960
week's episode

1457
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:56,799
thank you to those people who continue

1458
01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:58,640
to support the skeptic zone at patreon

1459
01:01:01,990 --> 01:00:59,920
or paypal

1460
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:02,000
or via page on a paypal at

1461
01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:04,000
skepticzone.tv

1462
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:05,760
without your contributions there would

1463
01:01:09,430 --> 01:01:07,920
be no skeptic zone for everybody else to

1464
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:09,440
listen to

1465
01:01:13,910 --> 01:01:11,760
including me hmm

1466
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:13,920
and there's a thought if i stopped doing

1467
01:01:19,430 --> 01:01:17,200
the show i couldn't listen to it anymore

1468
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:19,440
it sort of makes sense i guess

1469
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:21,680
but for this week with the planes and

1470
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:24,400
the cicadas and the cars going by and

1471
01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:26,160
people in the park and

1472
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:27,920
who knows what else

1473
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:30,160
this is richard saunders signing off

1474
01:01:40,230 --> 01:01:31,599
from

1475
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,990
you've been listening to the skeptic

1476
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:43,440
zone podcast

1477
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:44,880
please visit our website at

1478
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:51,109
for show notes contacts and to access

1479
01:01:55,829 --> 01:01:53,680
the back catalog of episodes going back

1480
01:01:57,829 --> 01:01:55,839
to 2008

1481
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:57,839
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1482
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,559
on twitter at skepticzone

1483
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:02,720
visit our facebook page or leave a

1484
01:02:07,109 --> 01:02:04,960
review on itunes

1485
01:02:10,309 --> 01:02:07,119
you can also support the skeptic zone

1486
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:10,319
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1487
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:13,440
podcast is an independent production

1488
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:15,280
the views and opinions expressed on the

1489
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:17,599
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1490
01:02:21,730 --> 01:02:20,079
of australian skeptics or any other